Address problems

 

DVLA, Swansea: Lovely place to work, it must lift your spirits as you arrive there each day?

You must make sure that the address for your vehicle as recorded by the DVLA is full and accurate. get your V5 registration document out now and give it a once over. The address on your driving licence must also be changed at the time you move.

Wrong addresses cause havoc. Whilst councils should make enquiries if they get post back some of them, Barnet included, just make a note and then plough on as if nothing has happened.

That wasn't the problem in the case that Mr Mustard is about to highlight, that was a case of a number of properties having the same number, different supplementary letters, ABC etc, and also a house name which started with that letter and that is why Mr Mustard suspects that everything went astray, the motorist knowing nothing about a PCN until the bailiff clamped the car and were paid in full.

Mr Mustard then usually makes a Subject Access Request, goes meticulously through the processing and finds the errors. Once he points them out councils usually back off. In this instance they agreed to refund back in November but haven't managed to do so yet. This is probably a side effect of the change of PCN processor from NSL to APCOA which, masterly understatement follows, has not gone 100% smoothly.

Mr Mustard watched the cctv. The PCN was issued at a problematic yellow box junction situated at the exit of the B&Q access road in Crickleood Lane and with an exit only junction to the other side. People often 'barge out' from the side road even though they should give way. That then causes a stop in the box. In this case the stopping was after such an event.

There is absolutely no traffic management purpose to the PCN. Access to B&Q was barely affected, any incursion into the box was trivial, the box is painted beyond the exit, the car could have moved forward if the driver has chosen to do so & therefore the stop was not due to a stationary vehicle (a legal requirement) and the box needs a repaint as it will be much less clear at ground level where the end of it is.

If the DVLA address had been 100% perfect Mr Mustard would have saved hours of work and got the PCN cancelled at the beginning.

Luckily the parking manager agreed to not pursue the PCN which should never have been issued in the first place.

Almost the end.

3333 - we aren't in America

The variety of PCN processing errors seen my Mr Mustard is legion. Haringey Council don't make the most errors but they don't make the least either, they just feature a bit more often in Mr Mustard's inbox than other councils as they are next door.

A relative of a neighbour came to Mr Mustard with a PCN at bailiff stage which was the first he knew about it and that was because he had moved and not updated the V5 registration document but had updated his driving licence. Those addresses are not linked and the error was one which is frequently made.

The man in question, let's call him Fred, lives at no. 33 but documents were sent to Fred using the same street name but the house number of 3333. That size of house number is common in America but not in little old blighty. As ever Mr Mustard likes to know the ins and outs of processes so he asked Haringey a question:

What procedure does the council have to review addresses of keepers which are supplied in an automated manner?

The  answer provided was:

Within our parking management information system we have the option to carry out checks on DVLA addresses through a module known as ‘suspect DVLA address’ – this allows us to make changes e.g. error with the postcode, second line of address missing. 

We also carry out pre-debt checks i.e. the PCNs will be sent to our debt checking company for data-cleansing before the PCN is registered at the Traffic Enforcement Centre, this will includes carrying out address checks.

Thank you for the helpful answer.

It does lead to two more simple questions though because of the answers given.

I note that you have a address correcting module which is optional: how often and when/why is it deployed?

I also note that the debt checking company (is that your bailiff firm?) may sometimes provide you with a corrected and presumably, entirely new to you, address.

If they do find a new address do you register the debt at the TEC at the new address without having first served any statutory document at it?

I realise these are new questions so you get up to 20 working days to respond, if needed.

The further information was provided pretty quickly.

In regard to the address correcting module; please be advised that all our DVLA data is received as part of an automated process. DVLA data is checked daily by an officer within our compliance team when it falls under the term 'suspect address'; this is usually when the address is in the wrong format or part of the address is missing.

If a new address is supplied as part of our pre-debt checks (carried out by our enforcement agency) then we register the debt at TEC using the new address details i.e. we do not re-issue the Notice to Owner or Penalty Charge Notice at this stage.

Whilst some incomplete addresses may get completed this isn't an absolute solution to the problem. Although these questions were asked 6 months ago Mr Mustard has a fresh file on his desk in which the documents were sent to an address which physically doesn't exist. That will be a separate blog post in due course.

The second answer is more worrying.

If the council send a Notice to Owner (or a bus lane or moving traffic postal PCN)  and then a Charge Certificate to 100 Green Street but the 'bailiff' traces a new address of 50 Red Street it is completely improper to register the PCN as a debt at 50 Red Street unless you are pretty sure that the documents sent to 100 Green Street reached the intended recipient. Address changes are normally date tracked so the bailiff (and their client the council) would know if the keeper had moved from 100 Green Street before the Notice to Owner was sent.

The council themselves admit they don't go back and check.

There is a human rights issue here. The way the council and the bailiff are working is not designed to ensure that the warrant isn't a bolt out of the blue. It is cheating, pure and simple. The bailiff will ambush the motorist by clamping their car and you are then a bit stuck as on the face of it the bailiff has a valid warrant (it isn't) but you need to pay to get your car back or make a witness satteemnt or statutory declaration to the Traffic and Enforcement Centre whilst the bailiff threatens to remove your vehicle (another £110 in fees plus nightly storage costs).

The best defence for the public is to never fail to update the vehicle address and if you are going to let the seller do it, check what they do and watch them do it, or do it yourself/together.

The end.

Are Harrow Council deliberately incompetent?

Readers with good memories will recall that Mr Mustard wrote about Harrow being horrible at the start of 2018, the back story is here.

It might have been the case that Harrow Council just got a little bit behind and their slowness was a one off which they should then have fixed. Unfortunately that is not the case as twice this week Mr Mustard has been contacted by clients who hadn't heard from Harrow Council for a year and then suddenly they did. If his clients thought the PCNs were over due to council neglect they would be correct in principle but wrong in practice as Mr Mustard checks every PCN twice a month to make sure nothing gets away from him.

The case with the worse delay has the following timeline:

You can see that Harrow Council have been sat on their hands for 33 months.

The Order for Recovery was sent to the same address as the PCN. Luckily the recipient had not moved home. If you had moved home in 2018 would you notify the council of your change of address from 2016? No, I didn't think you would. Nor would you have a postal redirection for more than 12 months, most people probably only have 3 or 6 months of redirection given how so much documentation now arrives by email.

Mr Mustard recommends that if you have had a Harrow PCN in the last 5 years that you contact them and ask them for the number (give them your car registration and date of purchase) and ask them to tell you the current balance of every PCN ever issued since you bought the vehicle and if it is not zero, to tell you the dates of all the statutory documents they have issued.

If you have moved you could do this even if you don't think you have had a PCN as it may have gone to your old address. Mr Mustard also recommends leaving a note for the incoming resident with your new address, as he did recently for a house he sold and he left a few parking visitor vouchers to help them in their moving in period - they were very pleased and have already dropped a final utility bill letter through his door. (Another tip, he read the gas, electric & water meters hours before they moved in and left a note of them at the property to save the buyers the time of performing the same task.)

What happens next to a PCN, if you don't file a witness statement (or statutory declaration in moving traffic cases) is that a bailiff will be instructed. If the bailiff finds the car, and most people don't move far and bailiff vans have ANPR, is that it will be clamped. As all of the paperwork will have been sent to your old address and you haven't been served with at least one obligatory statutory document Mr Mustard does not think you have been properly served but it is you who has the problem, a wheel clamp on your vehicle, which you may need urgently, so you end up paying. This is grossly unfair.

In this way, by being incompetent, Harrow Council and their bailiffs profit at your expense. That is unjust.

Once Mr Mustard has the current PCN sorted out, he will file a complaint with the council and if they don't apologise he will go to the LGO. He will also complain to the Iinformation Commissioner as the council, having abandoned enforcement of the PCN by their failure to act expeditiously, they no longer have the right to process your data.

After writing this blog post Mr Mustard decided to look through decisions made at the tribunal in October 19 & he found this one:

Councils are meant to learn from the decisions of Adjudicators, Harrow haven't learnt a thing and are plouging ahead with PCNs which they know is prejudicial.

Yours frugally

Mr Mustard

Changed your address - tell the DVLA on line

Update the address on your driving licence

Update the address on the vehicle logbook V5C

If you pay by Direct Debit for vehicle tax, phone DVLA on 0300 790 6802 to update the address.

It isn't the fine which is the real worry (whoever heard of anyone being fined for that) but the fact that documents about PCN may not reach you and your car could get uplifted by a bailiff.

Yours frugally

Mr Mustard

Council clamp down

Mr Mustard has a new and exciting line of work following the below email

This change in policy was voted through (possibly or probably unwittingly) at the Environment Committee meetings of 18 November 14, 27 January 15 and 19 May 15 (link here) which contained amongst dozens of pages, the following:

Mr Mustard suspects that the 'log book' V5 of his newest client will turn out to be out of date and that will severely limit his options for contesting what has happened but time will tell.

Mr Mustard recommends you go and find your V5 (if you have moved since you purchased your car) and check the address is the current one. Then check your driving licence. You have to tell DVLA twice that you have moved.

If you think you can hide your car forever, forget it, ANPR will almost certainly find you. The better policy is to fight your PCN to the end, not to ignore them.

Yours frugally

Mr Mustard

A new leisure facility opens in Brent - an obstacle course

The biggest obstacle to be found in Brent?

Mr Mustard has, for the last 4 months, been helping a lady who is suffering from a personality disorder and stress, to deal with her various PCN. He didn't find out about the one for Brent until he had been helping her for a month. Let us call her Miss O.

The first document Mr Mustard saw was a Charge Certificate so he was already up against the clock and the process.

The problem had been caused by Miss O having 12 residential addresses in 2013/14. No matter how quick you were to notify the DVLA each time you moved the system would not be able to keep up with you and a council tends not to check your address at the DVLA for each new document as it costs money. Before showing Mr Mustard the charge certificate Miss O emailed the council and asked the council to send her a copy of the PCN as she had not received it and advised them of a new address.

This is the reply that she received.

It is perturbing that Brent Council did not take into account the Code of Practice of London Councils who who run the joint committee which have statutory responsibility for certain parking matters in London. Sadly, a local authority can ignore the Code of Practice and there is nothing much one can do about it.

Fine words don't lead to buttered parsnips in Brent

What is much worse is that this letter was sent to the address which clearly Miss O had left. Luckily the letter did reach her. How stupid an act was it to write to an address you have been told is no longer the address of Miss O, following which you then escalate her PCN to bailiffs as Miss O has not responded to official documentation.

What Brent Council cannot do though is to make up their own rules as they did when demanding proof of the new address. At this point, 29 May, Mr Mustard sent one of his "too difficult" emails. Here are the contents of it:

---

I represent Miss O of redacted address as attached authority. The authority have refused to accept a notification of change address without documentary proof. There is no legislation that requires them to act in such a way. I draw to the attention of the authority that an independent adjudicator is quite happy to accept any address of which it is notified of, as 2(2)(c) of the Schedule to the Appeal Regulations as are the DVLA.

My client tells me she has had 12 addresses during 2013/14 one of which was in Brent.

My client is also unwell, as per the attached sick note, and struggles to remember things.

Given the lack of paperwork in this case, my client cannot locate the Charge Certificate about which she emailed you, I do need the assistance of the authority please.

A simple list of the dates of all communications in and out and the address to which the council sent each of its documents will enable me to decide what to advise my client about the PCN.

My client thinks that she must have stopped briefly to ask for directions (you have the advantage of a video recording which is not available to me on-line although you might be prepared to send me a copy on a dvd to my home?) but it does appear from the still photos that the lights of the vehicle are on which is consistent with what she says (no-one could reasonably be expected to remember exactly what they were doing exactly in an unknown corner of London on a date some 18 months ago) and you could not today issue a PCN by post based on cctv thanks to a change in the law.

Given the sickness of my client, the presumed briefness of the stop, the passage of time and the fact that only a CEO on foot could now issue a PCN for this contravention (and his/her time would be better used in giving out directions rather than a PCN) the authority might consider it more appropriate, and a sensible use of its discretionary powers, to simply cancel this PCN rather than put my client through the witness statement, representations & Appeals procedure for what can only have been a minor & fleeting contravention.

Thank you

---

The acknowledgement to this email contained the following statement:

In order for us to deal with your correspondence it is important that you provide the following information:
i) Full Name
ii) Postal Address, including post code
iii) Penalty Charge Notice Number
iv) Vehicle Registration Number

If you did not provide this, please resend your e-mail, and include any missing information.

When we have received all the required information your case will be put on hold. The case will not progress or increase in cost whilst it is on hold. 

All the required information was provided.

Was the case put on hold? Was it hell as like. An Order for Recovery was issued, to the old address by the looks of it. Mr Mustard got Miss O to sign a Witness Statement at the TEC which would have the effect of taking us right back to the beginning of this process i.e. a new postal PCN (in this case).

Mr Mustard sent "too difficult" email no. 2 on 12 July (the first one was clearly too difficult as it didn't get the courtesy of a reply, the council were on notice that the motorist was mentally ill and so they should make adjustments, none were made) in the form of a complaint:

Dear Sirs

Your acknowledgement of my below email included the following statement:

see the statement above.

and my email did indeed contain the 4 listed items of information so you should have put the case on hold. You have not done so (as the balance on your computer increased from £195 on 12 June to £202 on 28 June, two days on which I happened to check the balance) and it is procedurally unfair for a local authority to act contrary to how it says it will act and that is the basis of my complaint.

The second basis is that you have not responded to my email of 29 May, some 6 weeks later.

On 7 July a form TE9 was emailed to the TEC and doubtless it is now with you for processing.

You can check the registered keeper's address at the DVLA and please send documents to New Address Avenue so that they can be responded to.

Yours faithfully

Mr Mustard watched his inbox, nothing arrived. He checked his Royal Mail deliveries each day, nothing there either.

What did happen was Brent Council wrote the following to Miss O. on 17 July 15.

Thank you for your letter regarding the above-stated PCN. Please accept my apologies for the delay in responding to you.

I write to confirm that the PCN has been cancelled. The case has been closed and no further correspondence or notices in relation to this case will be sent.

Yours sincerely

Funny, is it not, that as soon as Mr Mustard wrote, the PCN was cancelled!

Now Miss O had not written to the council so how could there have been delay in writing to her?

When they don't say which "letter" they are responding to (there were at least 3 emails they could have been referring to) how do we know if there has been a delay?

A very sensible decision to cancel the PCN. A 2013 PCN at the adjudicators in late 2015 would not have played well for the council.

What worries Mr Mustard is which other less robust individuals, than Mr Mustard, are being bullied into paying up £165 when Brent Council have refused to accept a perfectly proper notification of an address change.

Don't let it be you. If any other council in London has acted the same, do please let Mr Mustard know by email to mrmustard@zoho.com

Yours frugally

Mr Mustard