You did nothing about a PCN - same here

 

The PCN processing system is carefully designed to bring finality to a PCN if a deadline is missed although it is matched with a fallback system in case a document goes missing.

As is often the case Mr Mustard received a phone call out of the blue from someone who knew someone whom Mr Mustard had assisted in the past. Mr Mustard can't give out informed advice over the telephone and always says the same thing 'Please send copies of everything'.

Four PCNs duly hit his inbox. They had all been issued in mid May for contravening a new 'no motor vehicles' contravention. They were for a location in Camden at which Mr Mustard had challenged one PCN the previous day, as luck would have it, so he knew the ins and outs of the location. There is an argument that the signs aren't accurate and that they are mis-placed but that is academic if you get timed out of the process.

As well as four PCNs Mr Mustard received four Charge Certificates dated at the end of June and early July.

The law is that you get 28 days, starting with the date of receipt of the PCN, in which to make your representations on a moving traffic PCN. Most councils allow a few days extra to account for any possible postal delay. If you make representations after the 28 days, the law says that councils can 'disregard' them. To 'disregard' is to ignore. That wouldn't be helpful so what most councils do is write back saying you are too late (that is businesslike and to be applauded). If you are late because, say, you were in hospital for the month Mr Mustard would expect a council to actively consider the representations as it would be unfair not to.

Mr Mustard enquired as to what had happened between the PCNs and the Charge Certificates being received, in case one of the fallback provisions applied and they are, in brief

1.  The PCN was not received.

2.  Representations were made but a reply was not received.

3.  An Appeal was made to a traffic adjudicator to which no response was received.

It was too soon for option 3 to be applicable and clearly option 1 was not applicable. That only left option 2. Mr Mustard asked the motorist in question, let us call him Mr P, what he had done between receiving the PCNs and receiving the Charge Certificates. The answer was 'nothing at all'.

Mr Mustard sent his advice.

I am afraid that I am unable to help you. My expertise is in fighting PCNs on time.

The advice didn't seem to be that welcome.

Is there really nothing you can do? Any advise ?

Sometimes Mr Mustard just has to tell it how it is and so he did. The PCNs do warn you what may happen if you do nothing, the penalty may rise by 50%

Nothing legal.

Pay up is my advice and act on PCNs as the system is designed to time you out if you don't respond.

Mr Mustard is not here to get you out of a pit that you shouldn't be in. Never ignore a PCN. Whereas £260 could have settled all four PCNs in the first 14 days, the sum now due is £780. Best get your act together everyone.

Yours frugally

Mr Mustard

Spaced out at Dart Charge

 

Mr Mustard's friend Bella has a personal numberplate, which she inherited and decided to keep and use.

A couple of years ago she received a PCN from Dart Charge for not paying to cross. As she has had an auto pay account for years that was a bit miffing. She phoned Dart Charge at the time, they were polite and helpful, which to be fair they usually are, and they squashed the wrong charge and put her registration on a (long) list of vehicles which have to be personally checked.

Oh dear, it went wrong again last week. Bella duly phoned up Dart Charge, keeping Mr Mustard in reserve in case the big guns were needed, and the unhelpful man at Dart Charge tried to blame her for having a space in the numberplate as that caused problems for their cameras. Everyone knows that ANPR cameras have their faults but with the supposed personal check as well the PCN should not have been generated.

The plate was properly spaced, it was fitted by the garage, a main dealer, to her new car when she purchased it and much like 110 TON above, an image taken from a police advert about how the spacing should look (it is defined to the millimetre in BS AU145e) Bella's two numeric three alpha plate has the correct spacing between the two sets of data and that is how the plate will remain. Let's see how long it is before the next blunder, hopefully never.

Even though you know the PCN is wrong you must deal with it or legally you become guilty by default. A terrible system.

If you do receive a Dart Charge PCN because you had never heard of the Dartford Crossing you will often find that if you phone them up (0300 300 0120) the helpful people there (as long as you don't get Mr Spaced Out) will let you pay the £2.50 (or whatever) crossing fee and cancel the first PCN. That is decent of Dart Charge as the aim is improved compliance not revenue rising after all.

Yours frugally

Mr Mustard

Pedestrian and cycle zone in Cannon Road N14

 

Mr Mustard may owe you an apology. He has been thinking of the 'flying motorbike' sign as a past this point sign as that is how it has been used by some local authorities in order to create a part time no entry sign as the well known red sign cannot have a time plate. It is definitely used to create a zone though when paired with the heading 'Pedestrian and cycle zone'.

The recommended sign (which became sign number 619) back in 1963 was like this:

The no entry sign was in red, it has been scanned in monochrome.

The idea to use a bar across the sign did not survive further consideration.

The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions were first published in 1964 and then updated in 1975, 1981 & 1994. One would think that every driver should know the 'flying motorbike' sign by now but the simple fact is that they don't.

In the 1994 version there is a sign for the end of a pedestrian zone

which is a greyed out version of the sign (and you thought a computer company came up with that idea?).

Here is a clearer view of the sign at the entrance to Cannon Road and of the exit, it being a cul-de-sac.

Now, here is a question. Clearly you can't enter the road at, say, 9am in the week (except when the signs are closed outside term times) but can you enter at midnight and then exit at 9am without incurring a penalty. The answer is that you will receive a penalty charge notice in the post (Mr Mustard is aware of one being issued) as you shouldn't be driving within a pedestrian and cycle zone during the operational hours (this makes sense if you think instead of a shopping street) and you get caught by the camera which is trained only on the entrance/exit and no-one would be driving up and down a road that is only a 100m long so no point in monitoring that.

Mr Mustard has sent for a copy of the traffic management order to see exactly what it says but as there are a number of these in Enfield in particular and as Mr Mustard's first thought was that you could go in outside the restricted hours and leave within them without penalty based upon the use of the flying motorbike sign alone to create a past this point restriction. As that thought was wrong and as Mr Mustard doesn't want you to get a PCN, he decided to share his thoughts with you.

It was the greyed out sign which made Mr Mustard think a bit harder.

Using your car on the road is just getting too complicated.

Yours frugally

Mr Mustard

Charging ahead

 

Mr Mustard sees quite a few Charge Certificates but not normally if over two years ago Barnet Council wrote to him to cancel the PCN. That is a bit odd and very worring for the recipient.

Mr Mustard tried a PCN enquiry to check the status which returned this answer which means either a typing error was made (Mr Mustard didn't) or the PCN is over.

Finally he tried to pay the PCN as if the PCN was cancelled you do get told in that screen. Mr Mustard thinks you should be given that information if you do an enquiry in order to avoid uncertainty and as the council keep the data on file for years, they just hide if from you, the person who the data is about.

So what has happened? A gargantuan cockup that's for sure although what and how Mr Mustard can't work out as this PCN shouldn't be able to have a Charge Certificate printed when we know the balance is zero. The balance within the PCN software though is probably calculated by taking the full PCN balance and subtracting any discount that is due and any payments made and then adding any charge certificate uplift or court registration fees. There should be a flag that says if the PCN is completed or not and somehow somewhere it has gone wrong.

It can't be the case that only one PCN has gone wrong which happens to be for a person represented by Mr Mustard as he only touches about 0.01% of the PCNs issued in a year.

Mr Mustard will find out.

Yours frugally

Mr Mustard

Here is the council's explanation. Management are to be commended to almost always responding to Mr Mustard's enquiries within 24 hours.

I have looked into this PCN and can advise that it is closed and no enforcement action had been taken on these cases since 20/12/2018, when a Notice of Acceptance had been issued . It was noted that an action was undertaken on the 06/07/2021 to clear up our case records, which inadvertently re opened the case and issued a Charge Certificate and would like to apologise for this. I can confirm that this notice was immediately cancelled and should not have been posted. This has been raised with the relevant supervisor to look into as a matter of priority.

I noted that you had asked how many incorrect documents have been issued and what has been done about them in the way of sending follow up letters telling the recipients that the erroneous document should be ignored as it has been reversed. This matter is currently being looked into and a letter should be sent to any identified customers that had been affected by this matter, to advise that no action should be taken and that their penalty is closed.

I hope that this information has been of help to you and would like to reassure you that no further action is being taken regarding this penalty.

Ingrate!

 

Lots of people arrive out of the blue and ask for Mr Mustard's help which he usually gives (although when he is busy with proper paid work he limits his help to the mentally & physically ill, the poverty stricken and when the council has blundered). It is his own fault for spouting off all over the internet that he receives c.200 requests a year. It is always nice though for Mr Mustard to know where his new requests originated and be told that the person met Jane at a dinner party and she said that Mr Mustard might be able to help. Sometimes it isn't like that.

Wednesday 16 June 17:32, a Direct message on twitter

Mr Mustard responded pretty quickly as even though it was the end of his working day he had just received a same day deadline and time is critical in the world of PCNs although not, as it happens, in this case, as you can safely ignore a charge certificate if you plan to, and have grounds to, file a Statutory Declaration (or witness statement for a parking case) when the Order for Recovery arrives.

What was useful was that all the council documents were supplied so Mr Mustard had most of the picture. This was at 7.20pm and Mr Mustard had got up off the sofa where he was reading a good book to make sure the matter was clear in the mind of the requestor, let's call them Mr I, by midnight.

So you ask an expert and then ask him if he knows what he is doing? You can feel the panic. Partly that was brought about by Havering sending an extra document designed to induce panic which isn't part of the statutory process and only gives you bad news, no explanation of what actions are possible, this is procedurally unfair and not becoming of a public body. Mr Mustard would have lodged a complaint but the matter got taken out his his hands before he could.

Five minutes later Mr Mustard asked for a little extra information

I fight 200 PCNs a year so just trust me. Can I see your representations please.

Then he sent his advice at 19:47 as seeing the challenge wasn't vital as Mr Mustard could see, as you can from the photo above, that there really isn't any excuse for failing to turn left.

A prompt rely about the challenge which was made was received, at 19:51, although it wasn't much use. Please always write out what you are going to write on the online system and save it in a word document or photograph the screen as you go along.

Then at 19:54 Mr I, who is in a corner, wants to turn back the clock to a time when he could have paid 50% before we are anywhere near through the set procedure that a motorist must follow. Mr Mustard replied at 20:00

At 20:05 Mr Mustard decided to ask for the missing page of the PCN, in case it contained an error, he was looking ahead to later, once the opportunity to make an Appeal arose.

All went quiet. Two days later, on 18 June, Mr Mustard decided to check the balance on line on the council computer as it is a good way of knowing from the balance if the next statutory document has been issued.

Finding the balance was zero Mr Mustard asked Mr I what had happened just in case the PCN has been resolved by other means, such as asking a local councillor for help, which information isn't always volunteered.

Mr Mustard also has a personal life and from 21 to 25 June he was on a bicycle headed to Broadstairs and back. All his paperwork is in the cloud and he takes a small laptop with him wherever he goes so that he can finish what he started. Nothing in the way of a reply came during that period. Mr Mustard also keeps a paper file on each PCN and doesn't usually scan and shred them until the PCN is finished which includes knowing the outcome as he keeps a spreadsheet of his results and Mr Mustard records the failures as well as the successes.

On 30 June Mr Mustard sent another email to find out what the outcome had been.

A reply was received a mere 13 minutes later and here it is

So it looks like Mr I paid up when Mr Mustard could have got the PCN back to £130 and possibly zero. Although the driving was poor the non-standard bullying letter which Havering Council sent needs to be stopped and a complaint from Mr Mustard might have made the council moderate their behaviour and decide to not pursue the PCN in all the circumstances. Whatever you think of the driving every motorist has the right (if in time) to take a PCN to Appeal and if it does contain a fatal procedural wording, have it cancelled. The Appeal would have included that Havering Council are not following the statutory procedure and are also overstating their powers. We'll never know how that Appeal would have turned out.

Having got this case off his chest, Mr Mustard feels a lot better.

Please only ask for Mr Mustard's help if you are going to listen to his advice or tell him why he is legally wrong and not going to take 2 hours of his life before capitulating.

Yours frugally

Mr Mustard